VicariousE 2014-06-29 07:01:04

Good writers don't usually like to lean on these devices, but you know what they say, "Good artists borrow, great artists steal." Even in Stephen King's magnum opus, The Dark Tower, King himself resorts to Dues Ex Machina (twice towards the end). I guess it's true you can write yourself into a corner, or start with a pretty lame premise :\

SaviorLoji 2014-06-29 21:35:01

Dues Ex Machina? Dont you mean Deus Ex Machina?
Well i sorta like the Prophecy and chosen ones concept.. it gives me quite a nostalgic feeling, reminds me of Final Fantasy games.
Btw, how is WoC going on?

BruMarioBro 2014-06-30 07:36:05

So prophecies are not good plot devices unless they are either favoring the villains or they can be changed by the hero's actions... By that logic, should the story of Super Paper Mario be considered good? Not only does it have a dark book of prophecies which says that all worlds will end, but there's also a light book, which was made purely to counter the dark one, so it's not really prophetic, and it says that the Heroes of Light will prevent the destruction from prevailing. On top of that, there's the "man in green", the single individual who can determine which book predicts truly. I'd say this makes for a pretty good story, wouldn't you?

BruMarioBro 2014-07-04 07:18:02

Ah, but Super Paper Mario's story does have its strong points. Despite all the Zelda-esque prophecies, the story really excels in character development, especially for the villains. I don't know if Bleck needed a prophecy to cause trouble, but he did need something big to exact revenge. But if you don't feel like playing it again just to remember the story, you might wanna watch Lucahjin's blind LP of it (WARNING: contains explicit commentary). I'm really enjoying myself with it.
PS.: To reiterate, the prophecy in this case favors the villains, since the Light Prognosticus isn't truly prophetic. So there IS some sense of dread for Mario & Co., if you look hard enough.

dumbird 2014-07-17 14:21:41

Somehow I feel youwere talking about me. even though you're not.

dumbird 2014-07-18 12:46:38

im kidding

sayo1 2014-12-06 15:54:04

Warning : English isn't my first language so I may have use words that I more weight than intended or i might have misunderstood some of your points/arguments. If so, iI apologize in advance, please do not take them to heart. I meant no offense.

In my opinion it would be more accurate to say "3 DANGEROUS Plot Devices to use", because the way i see it most of these plots won't affect the quality of the story.

In the case of the prophecy/chosen one I don't believe that's it complety useless. Usualy this plot device is used as a starting point for the story and it provides some kind of logic as why people would risk their lives and follow random main character who says "hey come with me slay the Supreme Overlord of Destruction that crushed the most powerful armies and makes every kingdom tremble in fear". If i take your exemple of Zelda : Ocarina of Time, if i recall correctly, the first time you meet the princess is after you sneak in her garden. Let's analyse the situation : you're a princess and there is a random kid that sneaks in with his fairy, wearing a green tunic, holding a sword and a crappy woody shield, in the event that you did NOT have a prophetic dream about him saving the world you : a) call the guards b) wonder what he's doing here or c) ask him to help you save the world from the terrifying Ganondorf. I hardly believe that option c) would be your first choice. Also, if we look at the prophecy in mythology its often use in the way when the man goes see the oracle he learns that someone will kill him so he tries to prevent it and ends up provoking the prophecy rather than stopping it. As for the chosen one, a main character type that often fits the role is the underdog. Since his is not skilled yet he as to go on an aadventure and train to become strong enough to defeat the bad guy and along the way he'll even start doubting the prophecy, etc. So I believe that as long as it was set in th BEGINNING of story it shouldn't be a problem (from that point its just a question of whether the story itself is good or not). BUT I admit that if you have a good story, that as NOTHING to do with a prophecy, you shouldn't just add the fact that there's a prophecy and that the main character is the chosen (UNLESS there was some kind of foreshadowing early in the beginnig, unknown, origins for exemple). Again dismissing it as a plot that should never be used is a little to harsh. I believe that the "Actually the one who was the big bad guy as his bestfreind/lovever/close family member twist" should be there instead of this one.

For the mind control i mostly agree, but at the same time i can see why its prefered over coercion, manipulation or threat. It's because the characters being trick may strike us as dumb, either because the ones that fall for the tricks are airheads, either because the trick was full of holes and obviously a lie (in that case it's the author's fault). Even when if the family of the victim was taken hostage, he could be percived as stupid; "why didn't he told the main character so they could plot to fool the bad guy?" or "why does he believe that the villain will spare them?". But when it's mind control, it saves the image of the victim. Then again mind control makes the victim seems like weak willed and it can de-caharacterized him (as in taking some of the aspect that make him different than fodder charcter A).

The Deus Ex Machina, yeah it bad, lazy and insulting to our intelligence. I can only recall two caeses when it did bother me, Kinnikuman (the manga) and MAR (the animation), because these to series where kinda light mooded until the final arc so i like "where does all this drama come from?". But the perfect exemple of which i think it was unnecessary is Clannad : After Story.

P.S. I really love you Pkm WoC series, keep up the good work not using these plot devices :D.